tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post2677495751197821523..comments2024-03-07T05:17:50.699-05:00Comments on Awful But Functioning: Dead (Kids of) PresidentsTashhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07376651134993450207noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-88379469029151807832007-12-13T10:52:00.000-05:002007-12-13T10:52:00.000-05:00I've only lurked here, and I'm not sure why. I do...I've only lurked here, and I'm not sure why. I don't have the words to explain, I just come. I've not even lost a child. I want to say I am so amazed at how you continue to get up and do? But you surely don't care about hearing that. Some might say you have Bella to live for, to continue for. I'm sure you feel that. But surely there were/are days that didn't/doesn't feel enough? <BR/><BR/>Maybe it's just being a mother myself, the mere thought is so terrifying. And you are right in the middle of the terror, voicing it. Niobe brings up a point that I've often contemplated, and decided that no, losing children being more common place must not make it easier. But again, I've not been in her shoes, either. Maybe a woman would have more support, as it happened to more, and more often. When I visit older grave sites, I am drawn to the little markers that so often line the side of a couple's plot. Often, with no names. It can't get easier, just because there are more. But then again, I'm only speculating. <BR/><BR/>Why did I comment? I really have no point. I just finally had to say I'd been reading, am touched by your story, and hope by saying something I'm not somehow imposing, or stepping into territory in which I have no business even reading, much less commenting, because I have not experienced what you have. I suppose I just wanted to say, when I look at my own children, and think of what you and many others have endured, I feel humbled. I also somehow feel more fragile, and remember (maybe you wrote this?) that griping about the mortgage, or the car's tires, or a filthy house, is a privilege. There truly are much worse things to deal with, and occasionally, I remember that when I feel overwhelmed. Does that sound trite? Insulting? I certainly do not mean for it to.<BR/><BR/>It's just that, from not even know ing you, you seem strong. I've dealt with depression, for no other reason than chemical, so know a bit about wanting to disappear, not keep putting one foot in front of the other. But even that seems indulgent, when I think that in the middle of that depression, everything around me was OK. I had no material reason to feel that bad, sad, angry. You certainly have, and do.<BR/><BR/>God, I really am rambling, and apologize. I usually gather my thoughts better than this. Maybe I should just delete, rather than post, but maybe what I'm trying to get around to, is that by sharing your pain, you do help some of us remember to be less whiny, and a bit more grateful. It's so easy to take what we do have for granted. And again, I'm sure that's not your point either, so I do not mean to insult. Compared to the experience represented in your other comments, including Elizabeth Edwards, I really have no business even being here.<BR/><BR/>OK, bottom line, and I promise to never darken your comments again...just, as a woman, a mother, I think of you, and don't even know you, pray for you and your family, when I remember to pray at all, and maybe it's just because Maddy was born within a couple of days of our baby, now almost 10 months, you, and she remain in my thoughts. I know I can't imagine your pain, but do most earnestly wish for whatever level of healing can happen for you, and your family. Wow. Sometimes words really are inadequate.allison, a flea circushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07628025951154112686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-5447672234517437292007-12-10T12:18:00.000-05:002007-12-10T12:18:00.000-05:00I also found your blog & this post through Aurelia...I also found your blog & this post through Aurelia. I remember reading about Jackie Kennedy's three losses in a book, though I can't remember which one offhand. Everyone always mentions Patrick, but rarely do you hear about her miscarriage & Arabella, who was stillborn at 7 months. I've always admired her, but in recent years (afte my own loss & infertility), when I've thought about her trying to cope with all these losses & difficult pregnancies among that huge, fertile Kennedy clan and in the glare of public life... well, I've gained a whole new respect for the woman. <BR/><BR/>How nice of Elizabeth Edwards to take the time to post here. I appreciate her insight!loribethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09272814565916935113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-85700009751757710872007-12-05T08:59:00.000-05:002007-12-05T08:59:00.000-05:00wow. thanks for this list. i have often felt that ...wow. thanks for this list. i have often felt that women who lived through the deaths of multiple children, surrounded by other women just like them, must have had a slightly easier time. now we seem not to expect babies to die, and when they do, we seem not to know what to say. it's nice that the blogosphere can replicate that sense of community. <BR/><BR/>i just found your blog (thanks to aurelia). i delivered my second stillborn daughter in september of this year, and feel great affinity for the experiences and emotions you describe. <BR/><BR/>i'm glad you're blogging!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-22703530669705717972007-12-04T13:07:00.000-05:002007-12-04T13:07:00.000-05:00Thank you so much for posting this. This is somet...Thank you so much for posting this. This is something I have struggled with since Joseph's death. Certain times I feel like I wear a deadbabymomma sign that makes me a misfit. More and more often though I'm feeling that it was a life changing event. His death doesn't define me. But what I took time to learn about myself in the process...that has indeed defined me in the most positive way.<BR/><BR/>Slowly the living does return. I'm 16 months in...and find there are still some things returning.<BR/>~Carole<BR/>http://accordingtocarole.blogspot.comThe Goddess Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14082406024088862566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-6089384633803894752007-12-04T12:51:00.000-05:002007-12-04T12:51:00.000-05:00Kate, thank you, I ammended my list to include Rea...Kate, thank you, I ammended my list to include Reagan's daughter. Yes, Arabella seems to be the name of JFK's stillborn daughter -- I did not include everyone's names if I didn't know for certain, or couldn't check somewhere I trusted. (Plus I'm lazy.) I'm also curious to confirm that the miscarraige Jackie suffered was indeed that and that some unknowing male historian along the line confusing one for the other (because it would so not surprise me).<BR/><BR/>Also, Niobe, my first reaction to your comment was are you kidding me? but I really think it's in the experience. I've lived, I now realize, a very happy and stress-free life all things considered until this February. Others may have suffered other personal tragedies that because of who/where they are in life hit them harder than the death of a child. So I'm not sure it's the experience itself per se, but the ensuing reaction that makes it the worst thing. I'm sorry you've experienced worse, though.Tashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07376651134993450207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-84076757567614498812007-12-04T11:11:00.000-05:002007-12-04T11:11:00.000-05:00So Arabella is the name of the Kennedy's stillborn...So Arabella is the name of the Kennedy's stillborn daughter? Jackie also had a miscarriage, i think. Ronald Reagan lost a daughter who was born alive but extremely premature, with his first wife Jane Wyman. I had no idea about HW's daughter and really that one shocks me. I don't know exactly why but it shocks me.<BR/><BR/>It's not my blog but i also wanted to thank Elizabeth Edwards for adding her eloquent voice to our little corner of the blogosphere...katehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16536809590856333391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-44982311111245271062007-12-04T10:02:00.000-05:002007-12-04T10:02:00.000-05:00This is an interesting list, to be sure.I don't kn...This is an interesting list, to be sure.<BR/><BR/>I don't know if it makes it easier to be a mother in mourning when it was commonplace or not, but when average citizens hear that celebrities and politicians have problems just like their own, it raises awareness of the issue.<BR/><BR/>And that has to be good, right?Aureliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13691032415028867902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-66362506776617703842007-12-03T21:10:00.000-05:002007-12-03T21:10:00.000-05:00Beautiful post and beautiful responses. I was thi...Beautiful post and beautiful responses. I was thinking of you and Maddy this weekend.Searchinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03112896236818363817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-35368351160376848872007-12-03T17:20:00.000-05:002007-12-03T17:20:00.000-05:00The Kennedy's also lost their first daughter Arabe...The Kennedy's also lost their first daughter Arabella http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline_Kennedy.<BR/><BR/>Okay, I need to go blow my nose now and re-compose myself.thricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09528308384855206125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-20109174741490603682007-12-03T16:53:00.000-05:002007-12-03T16:53:00.000-05:00Well, I suppose some sort of response is due here,...Well, I suppose some sort of response is due here, eh? Firstly, I think Niobe that it was easier in the sense that it was expected to some degree, and as Julia said, people were surrounded by fellow mourners. I do think, though, "easy" is relative -- losses were profoundly difficult. I'm reminded of a portrait by J.S. Sargeant of a woman: her husband had the portrait done when he discovered she was pregnant, and fearing she would die in the process, wanted to preserve her memory. There are a few books on history of miscarriage/loss, and I plan to read them when I'm of a slightly better frame of mind. <BR/><BR/>Elizabeth, your metaphor is beautiful. And yet, my blackboard stares at me empty. Occasionally I scribble in small wee writing, "Take care of Bella." "Walk Dogs." But, you're right, lately as self-care has returned, "go to gym" has made its way on. And hopefully someday I can find more profound things to look forward to on my horizon that will be inscribed as well. <BR/><BR/>Meg, I often believe I wouldn't be alive anymore if I lived then. Too many hangnails gone amok, a couple instances of red streaks after cat bites and foot problems, and incessant ear infections. <BR/><BR/>Ms. G, I'm not sure, but definitely part of what I'd like to know as well. FWIW, I read "Diana" as beach reading this summer, and I believe it was her mother who suffered a stillbirth and they did not allow her to see the child and she was beyond upset at the decision. Don't quote me on that, my memory these days is just ass. In fact, maybe I should run and double check that was in fact the book right now . . . .Tashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07376651134993450207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-31377185680158087072007-12-03T15:10:00.000-05:002007-12-03T15:10:00.000-05:00Coming over from Beruriahs blog..this was an excel...Coming over from Beruriahs blog..this was an excellent post. I have often appreciated the way the Edwards speak of their son, including him in their children with such ease. Losing M was most certainly the worst thing that has ever happened to me, and honestly, I do feel it has defined so much of my life since then.<BR/><BR/>One fact I was shocked by in your list was George H.W. Bush. I had no idea. I knew of the Kennedys, and a curiosity I have is that I read somewhere that they are buried with their stillborn daughter, but I have never heard her name, or even if they named her at all. I guess because M was stillborn, I have always been interested in the details, what was that like for Jackie, back then? Did she get to hold her, see her?ms. Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15263348912679823512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-80356448928275146132007-12-03T14:22:00.000-05:002007-12-03T14:22:00.000-05:00first time here. incredible post and amazing comm...first time here. incredible post and amazing comment by ee. my question is about your compassionate friends widget. how did you get it? i am so glad i saw yours and plan to light three candles in my home this sunday. the compassionate friends are in our area so i will check their website for a service. so glad that your widget alerted me to the upcoming event. i'd like to put it on my blog so i can remind others.whatthef*ckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06504688509955868945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-7145170788257750962007-12-03T14:06:00.000-05:002007-12-03T14:06:00.000-05:00Wow, I had no idea about these losses...though I d...Wow, I had no idea about these losses...though I did know about the loss of John and Elizabeth's son. I was shocked when I heard of it in the last election cycle. Somehow I have always felt different way for John Edwards because of that...perhaps my fate of losing Birdie had already been sealed and my body and mind knew it. Its really intense to read that list, I thank you for sharing this information.<BR/><BR/>I have been starting to research mourning photography from the 1800's when it began up to now...and its astonishing how it is nearly completely disappeared from our society...its sad how we cannot face the reality of death, especially when that death is of a child.<BR/><BR/>I have to disagree with you Niobe, losing Birdie is by far the worst and most tragic thing to happen to me. Even though I a still able to function without her losing her is horrific to me.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07485923244466218392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-19283662686490896362007-12-03T13:40:00.000-05:002007-12-03T13:40:00.000-05:00Tash, I think I was meant to be living back then. ...Tash, I think I was meant to be living back then. I have thought that so many times over the past 5 years. It would have been hard to lose all these babies, yes, but I wouldn't have been the complete freak show I am now--in today's society. I guess just a partial freak show.<BR/><BR/>As for the Deadbabymama cocktail parties? I think we need to have one of those, pronto.meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00113578396438869433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-17911047471745052892007-12-03T12:01:00.000-05:002007-12-03T12:01:00.000-05:00Elizabeth, if you are still here, that is a powerf...Elizabeth, if you are still here, that is a powerful, powerful description. It helps explain (to myself) a lot about how I have been in the last ten months-- a real aha moment. I am sorry you had the occasion to come up with such a clear and precise metaphor, I thank you for it, and I wish you and yours peace and strength. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Tash, I knew about Biden and Edwards. I had no idea about Thompson. I have issues with Senator Biden for other reasons (MBNA and bankruptcy bill, anyone?), and I have many-many issues with Thompson. But like it is for you, for me the part of each of them that is about the loss is sacred, not to be touched. <BR/><BR/>I also knew about HW, but not Kennedy (although something is stirring in the back of my mind to tell me I heard something sometime when it didn't mean anything to me), and not really anything about the earlier presidents, except Lincoln. <BR/><BR/>I don't think it was easier when it was more commonplace. I just think it was less isolating. You didn't need to go to the internets to find others who would understand-- your neighbor probably did.Juliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745262857388007041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-81252249562007178852007-12-03T10:32:00.000-05:002007-12-03T10:32:00.000-05:00I am so very sorry about Maddy. For your family's ...I am so very sorry about Maddy. For your family's loss and for her loss of life with a loving family. <BR/><BR/>I have often described the death of a child in this way: in life we have a blackboard on which we write all the things we are doing -- our jobs, coaching soccer, working at Goodwill, going to basketball games, whatever. And the board is full, so when the next thing comes along, we find a corner or the board to add a computer class or a space between other things for book club or sewing Halloween costumes. It is full and lively and seemingly all important.<BR/><BR/>And then your child dies, and all the things that were so important that you worked to squeeze them in? Well, they are all erased. And you are left with an empty blackboard. Everything you thought was important was not. And the next time you write something on the board, you are very, very careful about what it is. Your choices about what to do and how to do it are so much more deliberate. Doing something that is so patently important as public service -- whatever your politics -- well, that seems like an easy call. That is worth some of the space. And putting something on the board, well, it allows you -- in your words -- to function another day. And each day that you find something else worthy of the board makes it a little easier to put one foot in front of the other. And each day you functioned the day before makes it easier to function again. Are there still bad moments, even bad days nearly twelve years later? Sadly, there are. But they are not as frequent and they don't happen in that same emptiness you feel today. Now when they happen, we can turn to something that we have written, something worthy of our time, of his parents' time and we can function through that pain. As you will -- not without Maddy, but with Maddy not as a living, breathing daughter but as an inspiration and a helper to decide what is worthy of your blackboard. <BR/><BR/>Elizabeth EdwardsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-88655027177965037332007-12-03T10:28:00.000-05:002007-12-03T10:28:00.000-05:00I think (perhaps wrongly), that it must have been ...I think (perhaps wrongly), that it must have been easier to lose a child when it was so commonplace. Once I was looking up some old census data and saw that there were separate columns listed for number of children born to a woman and number of children living. In very few cases were the numbers the same.<BR/><BR/>Also (and I say this all the time) for some of us, like me, the death of a child, while sad and difficult, is certainly not the worst thing that has ever happened to us. Not by a long shot. Not even close.niobehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10685766216611639434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937223408953728341.post-41306258703570342372007-12-03T09:16:00.000-05:002007-12-03T09:16:00.000-05:00I knew about the Lincolns' and Adams' children, an...I knew about the Lincolns' and Adams' children, and that the Lincolns especially were devastated. But so many others, especially JFK and H.W., no idea. Wow.Beruriahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07171541078529309991noreply@blogger.com